Stephen A. Theberge

Speaker 1: Forward. Forward. Left. Find the door.

Speaker 2: There are over four million working aged blind and visually impaired people in the United States, and over two million of these people are unemployed. This is a staggering statistic, but many people defy these odds and are happily and gainfully employed, and we wish to share their stories with the world.

Speaker 3: Hello, and welcome to Vision Towards Success, the podcast that highlights stories of career development and lived experience. This podcast is brought to you by the Polus Center for Social and Economic Development. In our program, we feature employment success stories from visually impaired individuals for people with disabilities and their allies in hopes of showing just how smart, hardworking, and capable this diverse community is.

David Gonzalez: Hello, and welcome to Vision Towards Success. My name is David Gonzalez, and here with me is our guest, Stephen Theberge, a published science fiction writer and ADA compliance tester for the Massachusetts Bay Transit Authority. Now, we will hear from myself and our guest, Stephen Theberge. Hello, Stephen. My name is David Gonzalez and I am working with the Trades Win Project, and our goal is mainly focused on interviewing low blind and totally blind individuals on what they do for work and their success toward it. Do you mind introducing yourself and tell us what you do for work?

Stephen Theberg...: I do ADA compliance testing for the MBTA Commuter Rail. I also do web testing. I'm a published author, science fiction author. Losing my vision recently, I was always interested in accessibility and technologies that made things more accessible, really since I was young. So I've seen the growth of the technology over the years and with the Americans with Disabilities Act and having more of a voice, I thought it was important to be a part of that.

David Gonzalez: I've seen in your biography that you have received a bachelor's degree in English literature. Do you mind telling me about that?

Stephen Theberg...: Yeah. They called it the Creative Writing and well, we did more reading than writing. I was just always interested in... Well, basically what happened was when I was in computer science as well, I was wondering, I just basically thought that I could do another major, especially when the computer science professors were, in the beginning I wasn't doing too well because in those days, they didn't have a lot of accommodations, and my advisor said, "Why don't you switch majors and major in something like English and then rather ..." and I got kind of really mad. I finished the computer science and I said, "I'll show him, I'll major in English as well." So that kind of motivated me to be double major and I say, "I may as well double major instead of just taking an elective," and it worked out.

David Gonzalez: Relating to your own business or other companies that you have worked for in the past, what do you consider your professional strengths are that you would acquire to the workplace?

Stephen Theberg...: I would say I'm persistent and resilient. I like to explore all options. I don't do so much my own business now, but it has helped me with writing and help me be more self-motivated I think, and I work well with teams, but I'm also self-motivated. So where I don't really need a lot of people pushing me and I think I motivate others by example.

David Gonzalez: And how would you define that?

Stephen Theberg...: Well, I just tell people like they say, "How do you manage to write a book?" and I say, "Well, it's just something you really want to do it, you just do. There's really no formula. It's the motivation." That's where I'm stuck on my third book. I think the Covid didn't help with that, because the last year's been crazy anyway, but generally it's motivation.

David Gonzalez: Based on your business that you've partaken the past, do you mind elaborating on it?

Stephen Theberg...: No. I think at the time, it was the computer industry was very young and there were a lot of self-starters out there. You could do it individually. It was a wonderful time and I think I leaving school, but I think when we started getting into the 21st century, a lot of the companies started going groupware and it's a good thing for math production. It's really helped with Apple accessibility, but in the old days it was really, there were no standards. So it's catch-22, having the big companies, you kind of have monopolies in a way, but on the other hand, you have some standards, Microsoft, Apple, I guess, Google to a point.

But in the beginning I really had these, thought I could really make an impact and a lot of people did and there were a lot of self-upstarts and I think that's where my motivation came from was I actually can make a difference, but then of course when the story of most businesses is the big companies take over, which there's very little room for self-starters I don't think in accessibility. I'm sure some people are doing it but I think now with the big companies have, but it is also good with the collaboration because it is more teamwork, where when I was starting out there were so many options for accessibility. There weren't really any standards.

David Gonzalez: What was your thought process on connecting computer science and English literature to your business?

Stephen Theberg...: Well, people have often asked me that and there was always stereotypical computer geek scientist and not able to connect the human side. I've often been asked that and they say, "That's an interesting combination," and I'm like, "Not really." It's just two sides to an equation so that the technical, and you see that in business everyone wants to collaborate, kind of have emotional intelligence or conversational intelligence. There's more of a focus on business. I think not so much probably when I was in school, but it's becoming a normal thing to say, "We're going to get in touch with people on the level of not just being a business or having a skill, but also having a relationship, teamwork or relationship as much as you can in business."

David Gonzalez: I've also seen that you've attended a Perkins School for the Blind, and I've also wanted to know what really opened doors for you while you were attending the school?

Stephen Theberg...: It was really prepared me academically, as far as having the skills to go out to college. I don't think I would've got that in public school back then. I guess it depends which city you're from, but they talk about mainstreaming and there are good experiences that people have, but where I grew up, it wasn't really an option. So I felt Perkins really prepared me as a well-rounded, being academic and I think they gave me that persistence and they kind of didn't settle on mediocrity. They wanted to insist that you did your best. If you did your best, then nothing else mattered.

David Gonzalez: Has your peers in teachers motivated you over time while you were attending the school?

Stephen Theberg...: Yeah. Well, it was kind of, actually, I don't know how I did. They had a bunch of terms and I actually wouldn't want to do it now, but it was basically taking yourself away from work of literature on the emotional level and say, "Well, this is kind of technique is being used foreshadowing that this character's talking about they're going to die in the future. That's foreshadowing." They had a whole bunch of terms and then the poetry, they had a bunch of different from metre and a very dry thing, but it also you ... But it did help in terms of when you read literature later you say, "They're using this technique, and I don't really remember a lot of [inaudible 00:09:05], but I can see different styles of literature," but the biggest part of the analytical writing was when we would read something, the professor's like, "I don't care if you like it or not, it's not like some of those classes where you're like, "I liked it or I didn't like it,"" but to discuss the different techniques they use in literature, like similes or in poetry, different iambic pentameter.

It got really into the terminology, there was bunches of them. It does help when, because you see older literature and different styles. So it just gives you, I think, an idea of how to read certain things. Sometimes people say, "Well, I can't understand," because you don't to try and detect some things that deliberately done in a certain way. So it was interesting, but I don't do that anymore. I mean I can, but I don't really know if it helped me or not. I mean it did in a lot of ways, but I can't imagine sitting down and analyzing a piece of literature like I used to in college. It's like now I do care, I just ... Do I like it or don't I like it, but it was interesting, more on the technical stuff. I think that's from that case, but basically the bottom line was just to see what goes into making that literature or that work.

David Gonzalez: Was there a specific software that you have created that totally blind and visually impaired individuals can use?

Stephen Theberg...: Yeah, it was developed for stiff text-to-speech output system and it wouldn't be, that's when they had DOS on the old PCs. Basically, everything was typed command and then the first Windows came out and I started to develop software for that but then like I was saying, a lot of things moved really fast so it was really hard to keep up with the technology and things also got more expensive with the bigger companies. You have to spend a lot more money on software development tools, but it was really good at the time because you could really make a difference but like I said, there was no real standardization. It was kind of like there were a lot of options in the time and that's why it was really hard to make an impact. Although, I know I did help a lot of people, but it didn't really last very long in the software. I have a external hard drive that died, so it's on there but I don't have access to it but like I said, it wouldn't be usable with modern technology anyway that we have now.

David Gonzalez: Would you mind explaining your position as working at the Massachusetts Bay Authority in the past?

Stephen Theberg...: Well, what I do is it's the public transportation. They have subways, buses, commuter rail trains, ferries. I basically am paired with an observer and the observer basically takes a lot of the bus number and the times of boarding and leaving, and I basically do a checklist if they're doing announcements. So this is off of the Americans with Disabilities Act compliance. Then if they deploy the ramp, if you ask for priority seating, so there's a lot of rules and checklists that you go through and it's like if there's violations, if they didn't announce the stop which they're supposed to, you do a report, the time and what stops they missed, or on the subway if the automated stops weren't working.

So it's basically just doing a checklist and pretty much getting paid to ride on the public transportation, and I never realized how much of us they cover on the Massachusetts Bay. I mean they cover a lot of areas, they have hundreds of bus routes, and so it's basically ensuring that they're following the Americans with Disabilities Act, because what happened is that they were sued, they were brought on litigation in early 2000s. So now it was more just for compliance rather than monetary. So they've committed to keep accessibility without having being [inaudible 00:13:37]. So it paid off in the sense that they're really working to make things accessible and to keep them as accessible as they can/ a lot of audible announcements.

David Gonzalez: Throughout school and your work ethic, what would you say the biggest struggles you faced were in the past and how did you overcome them?

Stephen Theberg...: Well, I think the hardest part is knowing when you need help and when in the beginning of the school I didn't really, well, I had more vision then but now I don't have anything, but I didn't realize I needed to ask for help because when I went to Perkins School, everyone was visually impaired or blind. So I wasn't really prepared to advocate for myself, but now it's more over time you just learn that you just have to speak up and you have to learn to be patient with people because a lot of people get a lot of, I've noticed people get upset and they're like, "They should know better," and they get angry at other people and I just don't have the time anyway to, it's a lot of energy being wasted that way and I'd rather just be patient, and it's not always easy but just to educate and say, "Okay, they really don't know." Maybe they should know, but ...

So you have to learn patience and persistence and also that there are a lot of people who will advocate for you, but it's really you kind of always on your own doing it, especially day-to-day stuff. You can have disability things and events and awareness days, but for the most part just have to go on every day, and the biggest part of it to me is making it as normal as possible without making the disability a big focus. I mean I can't hide it, but I try to show it I'm as normal as possible, but that also means that sometimes I'm going to have to ask for help.

So sometimes I do get lost in park, I do get mixed up and get stuck in parking lots, so I'm going to need help or somebody's going to rescue me but, and also I think a big part of it is not to be so hard on yourself because I mean we all want to be independent and when we screw up we're like, "I should be better. I've done this all my life," and so it's human nature. Nobody likes to make mistakes, but I think the hardest part is to not take it so personally and just move on to the next one because you're going to make another one, but it is also worth it when you have your successes so you just have to keep motivated.

David Gonzalez: Getting back to writing, what would you say from an author's point of view, your overall perspective was while writing?

Stephen Theberg...: Well, I thought for me the biggest thing I could do was, I read a lot of, especially if they want to write science fiction, but I read a lot of classic science fiction, but I read a lot of, I think the more you read, it doesn't matter what kind of writer you are, you're going to be a better writer just by reading more. I'll read almost anything. Mysteries, romance, it depends what mood I'm in, but I think that if as an author you really have to read something. It's not that you're copying but you're seeing different, what kind of ... So I guess the analytical writing did help in the sense that I know different styles and I'm able to figure out what I want to do, but even if you don't really need ...

I always say this too, even though I took the literature and creative writing track, nobody can really teach you. You're either a good writer or you're not. I mean you could go to school all your life and you can learn techniques, but I think writing is something that's an inborn talent. It's like musicians, people are musically gifted and going to school isn't a bad idea, but I think I would tell people, "I didn't go to school for that," and say, "A lot of writers didn't go to school for that. A lot of well known writers, famous writers didn't go to school for writing and they were successful."

David Gonzalez: When we were in the peak of Covid-19, how has work life changed for you?

Stephen Theberg...: I really couldn't get out. We couldn't really go out in the field doing that for the MBTA in Massachusetts Bay Transits because the pandemic and nobody was going out, so I wasn't doing a lot of work then, but in terms of the web testing, I could do that from home, and in some ways the remote has actually showed everyone, not just people with disabilities, that there are a lot of things you can do that you don't have to go to the office for.

Even companies now, even though we're going back to the normal more or less, are saying, "Well, we can save resources by hybrids, and a lot of people are doing the hybrid route." So it's really an interesting, but that's kind of interesting too because you have the thing, the hardest part in the beginning was getting that self-motivation to do, when you had a schedule you were like, if you're going to work you have to get up, go and take the bus or whatever, but when you're home, you're kind of like, well, you have to kind of force yourself. So in the beginning it was kind of hard to get that mindset. I think a lot of people had that struggle.

David Gonzalez: While transitioning from school to work, have you had any inspirational influences that are doing exactly what you were doing now that influenced you in your past?

Stephen Theberg...: I can't really think of any specific individuals, but there were always people that you're like, you kind of aspire. I don't think in the beginning I had too many examples. I think I have more examples now of people that I could look up to when I say, "This is going to keep me motivated," but when I was transitioning from school, no, I don't think I had any real role models. So I was kind of had to be pretty much self-motivated. It probably would've helped, but not so much in the beginning.

David Gonzalez: For anyone trying to get into the field of analytical writing, what advice would you give them due to your past experience?

Stephen Theberg...: Well, I would just say it's a matter of keeping persistence, getting a study schedule. I mean, I think that's for any course of study, but just having that, setting that time aside and waiting, setting your goals so that you can work first and then play later I guess, because a lot of people are like, [inaudible 00:20:46] and just be prepared for a lot of hours of work, I mean, because there was a lot of reading.

David Gonzalez: And for my final question, what would you say your motivational drive was? Why did you want to pursue this that you're going for? What made you get out of bed to still strive to continue doing this?

Stephen Theberg...: Well, because I know there's going to be successes. Sometimes it is delayed gratification. It's like the first two books, the first book was awesome and people were like, "Are you going to write another one?" and I was like, "I wasn't thinking of it," and then I wrote, started doing the second one, and right after the second one was published, I started writing the third, I know I'm stuck on that, but I know I will finish it. Well, writing's a little different unless you're writing on a timeline where you really don't want to force yourself because it won't be good writing, but work in general, I just say you're going to have success either moving up in the career or having good days, like when I was doing the transportation work. You know you made a difference when you're catching violations and you know what's going to help improve things and just remembering what your goals are in that is going to help.

David Gonzalez: Well, thank you, Stephen, so much for taking time to do this interview with me, and I'm really glad I got to hear your advice and perspective on visual awareness, and what really stood out to me was when you were describing your path towards success, how you didn't need no one there for motivation. You were able to do it on your own, you had the mindset to just go along with it and just follow your path and I really admire that. So thank you again, and that's all the questions that I have and I'll be turning it over to the round table.

Hello, welcome back to Vision Towards Success. My name is David Gonzalez and here with me is our guest, Stephen Theberge, a published science fiction writer and ADA compliance tester for the Massachusetts Bay Transit Authority. The Americans with Disabilities Act was signed on July 26th, 1990, which prohibits discrimination against people with disabilities in employment, transportation, accommodations and beyond. We had a chance after Stephen's interview to further discuss his role at the MBTA. This includes digital accessibility, including access to schedules and making sure that the MBTA website is usable for people using assistive technology. He also addresses physical accessibility at transit stations through features like auditory announcements.

Living with a disability is an individualized experience and we all have different ways of expressing our needs. Unfortunately, the sighted community lacks a full understanding of how best to interact with people with vision loss. Many people rely on stereotypes about blindness rather than asking an individual what they need. How we react to people's perception of us can reinforce those stereotypes. Stephen notes that how we present ourselves can make a lasting impression on the people we encounter. We have the power to choose how we react, much like creating an accessible website. Stephen notes that education is more powerful when given proactively rather than reactively.

Stephen Theberg...: Well, I basically try to personalize it rather than making, I mean, I do say, "I can't see," and sometimes I get sick of reiterating it and I need to stop announcements, or more than the ableism is it just amazes me how people will say it's over there or, and I'm like, "Well, I can't see," and I think that's a struggle, but I think just explaining to the people in public, the bus drivers that we need these accommodations, and I think it has, being out there has improved it in terms of visibility because they kind of know they're on watch as you'd say, but some people know you can't do anything about it, you're not going to be able to change them and all. It's easy to get angry, but there's these people just sometimes are like, "Wow, I'm up against a brick wall here."

Always one bad apple somewhere or a couple, but I think it's how you present yourself. If you present yourself as angry and that as assumptions that, "They're wrong," they might not understand, but if you come in at it where you're saying, "It's not accessible and we're going to sue you because your website's inaccessible," you're going to get defensive, people are going to get defensive, and so when I like with website accessibility, I think we should be educating people before they develop websites, rather than coming in because it's hard to fix later and saying, "You're in a violation of the Americans with Disabilities Act, so we're going to take you to court," and the lawyers get a lot of money and sometimes the people that do that for as work is get money, but it's setting a bad example. I think we should just be having conversations and I think the problem is, I don't know if I see it with other things like racism, you come in making assumptions about the other side, you're going to have a bad relationship.

David Gonzalez: We also spoke to Stephen about his experience as a science fiction author. He feels that he is able to connect with other people through his writing in a way that is more personal. While he is confident in his ability to communicate effectively through verbal interactions, he enjoys the opportunity to articulate his thoughts through his writing. Stephen notes that his ability to communicate in written form has also improved his professional communication skills, which has earned him praise from his colleagues.

Stephen Theberg...: I do tell people like, "Write what you know." I mean, science fiction now is kind of off the wall, but I write characters from based on people I knew or so I'm not going to write about something I know nothing about and I think, I mean, it sounds so cliche, but you basically have to write what you have particular knowledge about. I mean, you can change it in fiction in all kinds of ways, but it has helped me communicate. I mean, people have told me writing minutes for me and, "That was the best minutes I ever saw," and I said, "That wasn't even work for me." I said, "You just haven't had a secretary for two years," but they were like, "No, but this is the best I've seen," and that's kind of humbling to me. I'm really not successful in [inaudible 00:28:41] financially, but my editors told me, "Don't expect to make a living off your writing."

So it really is for the love of it, but just having, being published, which is a lot easier now with self-publishing, but I do think it helps you communicate that more. I probably do write better than I speak, but usually when I speak, I speak on the fly. So I might say, "Like," "Well," but I don't write like that and I don't say, "But," all the time. I get more self-conscious speaking than writing. Although, if I was given questions ahead of time, but then again I'd probably be nervous like, "I hope I answer these right." So I think there is a difference, because you was saying communication is oral communication and written communication kind of a little different. Although, I do write like I speak, but I can clean it up all the 'uhms,' and 'likes,' 'you knows.'

David Gonzalez: Stephen acknowledges that having a support system plays a very important role in his life. A strong community consists of a mix of people with and without disabilities. He acknowledges that there is power in giving and receiving support, and that is having a sense of community serves as a source of inspiration and motivation in his professional and personal life. Each individual is unique and has their own strengths and life experiences. Throughout our life's journey, we grew an understanding of our blindness identity and what tools and skills we need to live independently. Stephen notes that having a space to share our experiences and how we live with blindness is a crucial element to one's journey.

Stephen Theberg...: I get support from others and I can give support to others and set an example as far as motivating others and showing that they might be other attitudes rather than, because people are like, "How can you do that?" And say, "I can just come from my side of it," and so it is definitely works both ways. You're giving and getting support. I think that's the main thing. You can rely on others for support in different situations, depending on what the difference, is different ability. Everyone has something to bring to the table.

David Gonzalez: While blindness is a part of our identity, it is not our sole identity. Through our daily lives, we gain a greater understanding of who we are and acquire the skills we need to live a meaningful and well-rounded life. Stephen explains that we may need certain accommodations to complete everyday tasks, not to have things done for us, but to have the tools we need to live and work independently. While our journey can be challenging at times, we should always remain persistent. As we grow and discover what blindness means to us, those around us will better be able to recognize that vision loss is not our sole identity and that we live as rich and fulfilling a life as anyone else. Stephen adds, "It may show how we do things, but if we know who we really are, no opinion matters. It's up to you to decide who you want to be and that will define your outcome towards success."

Stephen Theberg...: It doesn't define us, and yet we can't ... I know a lot of people say, "Well, I don't know blindness. I happen to be a person who happens to be blind," which is true, but it does identify how we do things. I mean, I'm not going to be driving, so be persistent. Regardless of what your ability, disability or I don't know, differently abled, whatever you want to call it, find your strengths, find what you're good at, have other people's feedback and go from there, and just live life. Don't worry so much about limitations or labels.

David Gonzalez: We'd like to thank Stephen for his time and being here with us today. Thank you for tuning into Vision Towards Success with your host, David Gonzalez, and our guest, Stephen Theberge. You can reach Stephen at stheberge20 [at] gmail.com. That is S-T-H-E-B-E-R-G-E two zero @gmail.com, and now a blindness tip from Stephen Theberge.

Stephen Theberg...: Be persistent. Regardless of what your ability, disability or I don't know, differently abled, whatever you want to call it, have other people's feedback and go from there, and just live life. Find your strengths, find what you're good at. Don't worry so much about limitations or labels.

Speaker 3: Thank you for tuning in to Vision Towards Success. This program has been recorded and produced by Elena Regan and David Gonzalez From the Trades Win Audio podcast team, in association with the Polus Center for Social and Economic Development. Funding for this program has been provided by the Libby Douvon Award from the Fielding Institute, the Massachusetts Commission for the Blind, and the Barre Savings Foundation. Additional episodes of this podcast can be found at www.poluscenter.org/tradeswin, or wherever you get your podcasts.